It has been brought to my attention that the 4 stroke singles all must run together while the 2 stroke singles, (and the 2 stroke twins and triples), get broken down into seperate classes depending on their size.

Now..........let me say right up front that while the easiest thing to say would be....."come on man...wake up....it's a 4 stroke not a race bike", that may not be what is needed. Last years final in the unlimited single class proved that the 4 strokes have become more competitive and SOME of them are actually "somewhat fast".....(lol)......All that being said, I AM in favor of having as many people show up to the PS Drags as anybody out there, and I do realize the 4 strokes have became very popular for more than just feeding the cattle and hunting......(darn-it....there it goes again....did I say that out loud?..... ...) so in fairness to the stroke challenged people out there I thought I would throw this out to see if more of the people who are racing 4 strokes would show up if the classes were to be split up (say at somewhere around 500 or 525cc's)?

I HAVE NOTHING to do with the races, I have just had a few people voice their opinions and they seemed to want me to mention it and "go to bat" for them.....(I am still not to sure I am the best spokesperson for them.....but they did ask nicely.....lol). Charlie might want to pull this thread down or move it to some other section, (the trash bin section comes to mind right off the top of my head, but I couldn't find it......DANG-IT, sorry)

I am open for suggestions,

Currently there are the following for the 1 Cylinder Heads Up Classes

Limited 1 Cylinder 4 Stroke

Limited 1 Cylinder 2 & 4 Stroke (0-475cc)

Limited 1 Cylinder 2 & 4 Stroke (476+cc)

Unlimited 1 Cylinder 2 & 4 Stroke

Charlie, that structure looks good.

can i ask how you are going to check to see if everbody is telling the truth about what they got. i will be there with two raptors in drag chassis one is a 727 and one is a 7??. i am just wondering about how the race is going to be set up

thanks kirby smith

just my opinion i think yall should do a single cylinder stock frame class unlimited are heads up

Whats the limited part mean? I agree with whiteghost. There are plenty of 4strokes willing to show if there is a class for them.

"Limited" means no power adders, (no turbos.....nitro....nitrous....superchargers...etc).

It is not my intention to start a "which is better" discussion, just to try to get as many racers to the track as we can...because that helps everybody. That being said,I know there are people who would like to have a "stock frame class".....and an "aftermarket frame class".....and a "straight off the showroom floor class", but IMO that is what bracket racing is for, to learn the sport.

I was thinking of, (I'm sorry for saying this already Charlie), suggesting another single cylinder limited class be added and changing the wording on the two classes we already have.......here's my thoughts.

A 250cc two stroke and a 450cc four stroke "should" be close in performance, (at least that is what the AMA has been telling us for a few years now), and in my opinion a 500cc 2 stroke "should" be competitive with as big of a four stroke single as they can put together, (and still get it started that is.....lol), but to make a 520cc 4 stroke with a stock frame, run against a 540cc two stroke with a drag chassis is going to leave little hope for "one of the guys".

Here's my proposed Single cylinder class breakdown:

CLASS #1.....Limited Single
Any size 2 or 4 stroke single cylinder engine allowed, no power adders.

CLASS #2.....Limited 0-475cc two stroke single or open displacement four stroke single, no power adders.

CLASS #3.....Limited 0-270cc two stroke singles or 0-475cc four stroke single, no power adders.

I agree there should be a distinguishment between a drag chassis and an oem chassis.

We all know that an oem chassis bike will NOT be competitive against the chassis bikes.

Just my thoughts.

Here's my proposed Single cylinder class breakdown:

CLASS #1.....Limited Single
Any size 2 or 4 stroke single cylinder engine allowed, no power adders.

CLASS #2.....Limited 0-475cc two stroke single or open displacement four stroke single, no power adders.

CLASS #3.....Limited 0-270cc two stroke singles or 0-475cc four stroke single, no power adders.
[/quote]
what class would a drag chassis raptor or ds run shooting go-go juice i'm gonna assume these proposed classes and charles classes will be combined to help with getting a fair turnout with the 4 strokes true were 4 strokes but we like to race as much as the guy beside us on a shee

Another vote for drag and stock chassis classes.

PS rules that incorporate/compliment the FSC rules would make it easier for folks building 4 strokes for both kinds of racing. Except for the duner class, all the other FSC rules could apply to flat drags.

Good thread, keep it going..

Stock Frame and Drag Frame?

I have seen the OEM Frames with Struts not be a significant difference under a Drag Chassis.

I have seen many struted Hill Chassis/OEM Chassis go just as fast a drag chassis in all of the events.

We have a OEM Raptor Chassis and a Drag Chassis in the shop, not much difference in weight, the rider weight will play more of a factor then a chassis.

Geometry of the chassis, you can do alot with some inexpensive 1" tubing and and get the ride height set.

In 2006 we had many winners using a OEM Chassis.

If the guys really want a chassis class to show up, well then we can make them one.

Juice = Unlimited
No Juice = Limited

Unlimited OEM Chassis Class sounds good.

keep it simple have a couple heads up classes with strict cc and weight and and engine part rules so every one has the same to work with and the rest bracket race and if you whant to build a heads up bike get the rules out and build it with in the spec example follow guidlines of pro stock using factory parts ,gas , weight,wheel base etc.and if the rider chooses to buid one and compete great if he doesnt thats good too and have one for 2 strokes and one for 4 strokes just like in nhra there are only 4 pro classes that are heads up if you want to race them you build by the rules not break it up becouse the next guy whats to fit in then he is just going to complain that its not fair and thats what i see a lot of on here it would make it easy if every one that is racing heads up had a 700cc max and sticks to them and how you get there is up to you if your not 700cc you better find a way dont bend the rules

You say keep it simple, but on the other hand they have more classes for twin cylinder 2-stroke than you can shake a stick at.....

cut it back
no need for it have them do the same if they want to race heads up be with in the rules if they just want to see how fast they can go thats different that doesnt mean they are racing heads up make mayby two classes for two stroke and stop bending the curve and make the class have strict part rules example no engine can be bigger than 14 mm if you want to race head upthats what makes pro stock elite is making power with guidline any one can build big but who can make the power per cc thats the challenge

I agree.

A cut and dry class structure would be such as....OEM Chassis 4-Stroke Single Cylinder Unlimited & Drag Chassis 2/4 Stroke Single Cylinder Unlimited.

Airforceone and Dax Deroen have proved time and time again that a 450-based machine is more than competitive with the bigger powerplants.

dont mean to be hard on you guys i race pro stock so i know how hard it is but every one plays buy the rules or goes home no excptions you can have some kind of challenge to see who can go down the track the fast and name him fastes on the planet thats ok but dont make it part of the heads up racing

I think its no secret that there is enough "fast" OEM chassis 4-strokes out there who would be more than happy to participate if they had a fair enough class structure for them to compete.

You cant compare an OEM raptor chassis to an OEM DS chassis either. Its apples to oranges.

All Im saying is there is no way an OEM bike will be just as competitive as a drag chassis bike.

Yes, KMS ran the fastest ET with an OEM chassis to date with a nitrous/turboed raptor. (4.2?)

But the chassis bikes were running this on motor alone in the limited class on Friday.

doesnt matter make if they all weight the same may have to add weight to one and take from the other

OEM & Drag Chassis Class would remedy this situation.

one or the other not both and they dont race buy the rule of what ever chassis go bracket racing thats what is for the rest of them you cant make them all happy but if they want to compete they can build a bike for the rules

So your saying either/or wouldnt have a place to prove they are the fastest?

not unless you race by the rules it doesnt matter i can put nos on my bike does that make me the fastes on the planet for prostock with nos no becouse there was no guidline for it im only competing with myself or one other person they would make fun at me saying i couldnt do it with in the rules and would be the joke of the day

If Planetsand is looking to bring more bikes to the table this year....we all know there are far more OEM chassis bikes out there than drag chassis's.

Its according to how they look at this.

Fastest On The Planet=Drag Chassis & Power Adders.

Boost the Number of Entries=OEM Chassis & Power Adders.

isnt that what happens on here they say well he had nos or he had a bigger engine get th picture

thats why they have superstock and prostock the guys can bracket race if they dont want to build with in the rules and can still race at planet sand nothing would keep them from building a bike with in the rules if they wanted to race heads up

So your saying the guys with OEM bikes built to the hilt will just have the opportunity to waste their engines in the bracket classes?

yes unless they play by the rules there choice

they are not going to let somone with a blower in prostock just becouse he built it to the hilt what would that prove every one know you can go faster its going faster with in the rules

So, if they are "forced" to run in the bracket classes to be competitive then why should they spend that kind of money on their engines?

spend the same keep it in the rules thats technology they dont have to get out of the rules they choose too

example would you whant to compete against a 350hp prostock engine you would get upset thats why there has to be guidlines dont think im trying to piss you off im not just trying to let you understand what its going to take to get a sponser to take you guys serous

But if the only rules you had in place was either an OEM or Drag chassis...the sky is the limit.

IT has already been said that the built 450's are competitive with the built big blocks.

I say break it up cc, and not frames. In quailifing last year in the limited 4stroke class the fastest qualifier was a oem frame raptor(Nick's). It was one of the only few oem frames there. The 2 strokes are not breaking it up by frame type, so there is no reason 4 strokes should either. Most the drag frames are set up to run spray and are slower on motor alone and oem frames will have just as much of a chance at winning the limited classes as a drag frame. I have gone to a drag frame, but if I still had my oem frame I would have not problems entering the limited 4stroke class.


The Clash is a good venue to break it up by frame type.

if there is a weight rule i wouldnt matter what fram you had

cant have the sky as the limmit there will always be som one with more money and technology

Why were there not many other OEM chassis bikes at Planetsand in 06'?

if they weight the same i doesnt matter is there a problem with a weight rule

I agree.

the ds i work on for hpr they picked up a lot from weight i know for a fact they would put it back on if the rules where set

Not sure why there were not many there, if mine had been running at the time I would have entered. Others that could have been competitive in that class didn't even come to the race at all for whatever reason.

I don't know, I guess we can wait and see how many respond to this post with a oem frame bike that is willing to enter and run off motor alone, no nitro, spray etc in there oem frame.

I guess I am not understanding what you are asking for, do you want a seperate limited and unlimited oem class? like this?

Limited Oem frame
Unlimited Oem frame
Limited drag frame
Unlimited drag frame


four classes for 4strokes?

Sure, thats what Im proposing.

Make the Drag Chassis classes for 2 Strokes / 4 Strokes.

I think a 4-stroke in a drag chassis is more competitive with the 2-strokes than in an OEM chassis.

JMO.

This is certainly a good discussion.

So your saying they weigh less this year than last year?

not much they have picked up power i would like to see eric get out more often but also has a car he plays with

So, your proposing a weight limit with an unlimited or limited stipulation per class right?

has to be some limitations they should all run same fuel and be on the moter and cc and weight
and i stress weight

But, we know the full-blown 450's will run with the full-blown 650's.

I think if enough oem frames show up that could be a fun class structure. But, I just am not sure that that many oem frames are going to show, hopefully I am wrong. The limited class is on Thursday, I hope these guys will take off the time to be there for test n tune on Weds and be ready to race on Thursday.

But what would you say it the fastest e.t. in the oem limited classe is faster thant the fastest e.t in the limited oem drag frame class?

Overrated, I think the reason more OEM bikes didnt show up in 06' is simply because they really didnt think they could be competitive.

stay in you class in ama prostar there are prostocks that out run promods but they sta in there class

if any of them would like some help i could prob make them copetative they just have to ask and listen

which is amazing

I think the fastest E.T.'s on an OEM chassis without power adders will be in the 4.3-4.4 range this year.

I think the fastest E.T.'s on a drag chassis without power adders will be in the 4.1-4.2 range this year.

I think the fastest E.T.'s on an OEM chassis with power adders will be in the 3.9-4.0 range.

I think the fastest E.T.'s on a drag chassis with power adders will be in the 3.8-3.9 range.

And how would you do that?

Very amazing.

make it 700cc that way i covers all makes and if the 450s get bigger and faster then the other guys better do there home work and that includes me

maybe so. A lot of the guys I talked to that couldn't come had to work, or had some other obligation to be there on Thursday.

Hopefully some more people will chime in that actually have a oem frame, since me and you both have drag frame. And we can see how much participation there is and Charlie can make a decision on this. It is getting close.

Well, we have atleast 2-OEM bikes that will be there to compete.

But, we already know going into this race that we will not have a fair chance to be competitive with the chassis bikes.

if you guys want i can talk to danny gracia from nhra and see if he can com up with som guidlines to start you out

This is not the NHRA.

Yes, there are similarities. But there are also a lot of differences that I think need to be addressed on the atv level instead of a car/bike level.

ok just a thought

Check your pm's.

I agree, but we will have to see how it all comes out.

What do you think HPR's OEM frame is going to run for ET?

With or without the spray?

both?

Off=4.1

On=3.9

I'm bringing 2 OEM frame Raptors and if I get it done in time, a hybrid drag chassis. If there are classes for OEM and drag chassis, I won't build the hybrid and just make another UL OEM chassis.

All motor sounds like fun and if there's an OEM frame all motor class, lots more machines can be competitive.

I don't know where this is going but i need to know what the final rules are going to be because i need to make move before we run out of time,only 2 months left catch my drift some of us only get to work on our rides on the weekend.

I agree, we need to finalize the classes soon. Time is short.

However it is, lets do it.

we need to know something if they have a oem and a drag chassis class i will bring both!!!

WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!

I agree there should be a minimum on weight for safety reasons alone. Last year one race team had a carbon fiber axle break at the line, I would have hated to see it come off at 80mph. There has been other breakages of swingarms, etc. All luckily have happened at the line and not on the track. I would hate to see someone in a wheelchair or worse before this rule gets made. However there is probably not enough time between now and April to put a rule like this in. But it is going to have to be addressed at one time or another.

I don't really want to line up with someone with a unsafe bike that can take me out either.

i say run a drag chassis class and a stock chassis class. that way there is no checking of motors. everbody bring there best and lets have fun!!!

Thats what Im talking about.

Run-What-Ya-Brung and hope ya brought enough.....

I like this. I can field a bike for both classes!!

I would like to see that any atv 4-stroke production bike be allowed, single & twin cylinder.

Oem frame (non altereds) and drag frames.Both unlimited. Thats easy enough.
What about production atv engines? I hear that people are bringing transplant/hybrids this year?

Yeah, the hybrid bikes will need to be addressed for sure.

I have to say amen to that ... Mr. Knight here, has the fastest v-force in the country, but kinda gets hosed on the whole twin cylinder thing.

I think it should be allowed if its from the factory.

you guys have gone wild!

it will take a fresh mind to comprehend your posts.

Thanks Charlie.

yea thanks, we will be wating for an answer

Charlie, this would be a great start. There are lots of fast oem frame bikes out there. This would also make room for the four stroke wars stock frame bikes.

So you guys want to run the 2-strokes in with the 4-strokes and not worry about any displacement differences?.....'cause it sounds like you want to run your own classes and not run in "Single Cylinder" classes that are already laid out?

Surely you don't want to seperate the two strokes out of you classes and make us have to add two more classes for the two-strokes and then combine both into the Limited and Unlimited Classes that are already laid out?

I don't understand why your opposed to 4 strokes. It does get confusing as many want a class to suit thier particular build/frame setup. I do not think the 4stroke guys care care about the displacement between the 4strokes.

I dont see the problem with combining the 2-strokes and 4-strokes in a drag chassis class.

scott pic of the bike you wanted to see

no we do not care about the size the only two classes we want is oem unlimited and drag chassis unlimited. let the single cylinder two strokes run their own race. but that is my opinion.

thanks kirby

In case ya'll havent looked. these are the classes availiable for a single cylinder 4 stroke.


Thursday:

4 STROKE SINGLE CYLINDER LIMITED HEADS UP(all cc's)

SINGLE CYLINDER LIMITED HEADS UP (2 & 4 STROKES)

1. 476CC AND UP $100 Entry 70% Payback Split 70% to 1st 30% to 2nd Place

2. 0CC - 475CC $100 Entry 70% Payback Split 70% to 1st 30% to 2nd Place



Then on Saturday,

SINGLE CYLINDER UNLIMITED HEADS UP(all cc's)

1. ALL 2 & 4 STROKES $100 Entry 100% Payback Split 70% to 1st 30% to 2nd Place

that post wasn't directed at you Kirby, just posting info in case people haven't seen it.

no problem thanks for the info

My main reason for starting this thread was to address a few of the comments I had gotten from a "few" people. There seems to be pretty good number of "lightly modified" 4-stroke singles that IMO wouldnlt have a chance at a win in any of the above classes....but they still want to race heads-up.

I will use HPR's big single as an example, with this bike putting out somewhere around 90hp without power adders, it would be dreaming for the owner of a "lightly modified" 450cc bike to feel likely enough at a win in the 4 stroke single class, (or in any of these classes), to put up their $100.00 entry fee. Not saying the HPR bike will win, just using it as an example. Remember that the Class 2 single limited field will include up to 475cc two-strokes, so it will be tough for them in that class as well. That was my reasoning for putting the small 2 strokes and the under 475cc four strokes together, because a 250cc two stroke wouldn't fit well into any of the classes either.

Will bore/stroke be checked trackside?

I sure like the idea of a class the 250 2 strokes can run in and im sure there are a ton of other 250 guys out there still. I think all the classes are great but I feel there should always be some type of class that allows most stock bore and stroke bikes to compete against each other as they have to be the most common. I know there is bracket racing but id much rather race the guy and bike next to me instead of trying to repeat the same run, over and over.

Charlie - Did you make a decision on the OEM and drag chassis split?

I was also wondering if the jury is still out on this issue.

i am also wondering becouse if there is a split i will be bringing two bikes.

I dont think there will be a split.

But it sure would be nice if an official would clear this up.

Thanks in advance.

I would also like to cast a vote for the split.

OEM frame
Drag frame

DuneDevil

Is anyone against this idea? Lots of YES votes, some discussion about whether it makes a big difference, but I don't think anyone has actually said that it's a bad idea.

Well, IM just waiting on someone official to react on this notion.

i think they should run the all motor day on thursday but all the unlimited on sat.i don't care if it's 4-stroke or 2-stroke as long as it's single cylinder.

I'm with dune devil.
OEM frame
Drag frame

Or atleast power adders
no power adders

They have a power adders/no power adders class already.

I would like to see a distinguishment between an oem and drag chassis.

Hello? Is this thing on?

I dont think so.

Guess I'll have to run my drag chassis,

I guess that should have summed it up.
We must be idiots for spending the time,effort and money to build a chassis for our big four-stroke single.To have a longer and truer chassis with correct wieght bias and lighter wieght isn't going to help?
I can see where there would be so many people (thinking) they would be competative that it would take forever and a day to run the eliminations for an OEM class.

I think the term for that is "growing the sport"....

Hey Scott, will there be an official go-to person that will make the call in case of problems? I think that would be the key to keeping this event on time. Start on time and have an official to make a call right there if a problem arises to avoid half-hour discussions on things. The official would make the call and things keep rolling.

Benwa, this has been resolved and yes there will be an official who will make the final say.

Bumping for Planet Sand.

After what we experienced at the Clash of the Titans today, they might want to really consider this suggestion....

Charlie said that he'd look at this a couple of days ago...

Good deal.

Thanks Charlie.

can anyone tell me what the final class settings are going to be so i don't have to read everyone of these posts.

Unless Charlie changes it, the class structure remains the same, the 4 stroke classes won't be broken into OEM and drag frames.

I would like to discuss this again for the 2008 PS drags. I dont know if the best way to go about it is to dig up this thread, but i would like to see some good discussion and grab the officals attention for next years race.

I will explain my situation:
I have an oem frame 450 based 4 stroke that is a consistant winner in my area. I would like to find better competition in LA at PS. I do not have an unlimited budget. I cannot take off a week of work for nothing...like many others i persume. With oem frame classes that gives more of the average guy kinda racers like myself a chance to race on a big stage. Im not saying i cant compete with the chasis guys but it is alot easier to spend the money and drive 1800 miles in a class thats perfect for your bike than take a gamble. I dont really worry about being under-powered becasue i dont think that is an issue but id probably be giving up alot to a bike with equal horsepower and a chasis that is 50lbs less. Lets face it...chances are if you are at PS you probably have enough motor. The races are won with chasis set-up.

I hope some others will step up and help to get these classes esatblished. There was some good discussion here before the 07 race and i would like to see some more oppinions,advantages,and disadvantages.

I would like to see somthing like this that was suggested in this thread:

Limited Oem frame
Unlimited Oem frame
Limited drag frame
Unlimited drag frame



Thanks.
Brady

I remember another organization giving a go at the OEM vs. Drag Chassis issue in WV.

My ? How would one go about determining just exactly what is deemed an OEM chassis ?

You know how people like to push things, so it would have to be very cut & dry.

I think the rules should state that you are allowed no modification to lengthen the frame. The only mods to lengthen would be a-arms and swingarms. Cutting to remove weight would be allowed.

So one could build a titanium oem replica ? lol (however unlikely)

Its an OEM frame class...Original Equpitment from manufacturer.

I`m with ya --- How about "stock engine cradle" everything else goes.

Here is somthing for us to discuss. These are the rules from the 4 Stroke Challenge Series and how they view an "OEM" chasis. Will these rules also suit PS?

· Definition of OEM Chassis

o Original Chassis with the following modifications only

§ Removal of cable hangers and other brackets not used.

§ No geometry changes.

§ No tube replacement.

§ Smoothing of welds for cosmetic purposes only.

OK..........I am probably going to make you, (and a bunch of other people), mad at me for what I am about to say..........but here goes.

PlanetSand has already added one more class to the Limited Single Division, and one more class to the Unlimited Single Division. Are they supposed to add 3 more classes to each Division? That would give the following classes:

Division #1
Class #1....Unlimited drag frame, Open displacement 2-stroke & Open displacement 4-stroke
Class #2....Unlimited drag frame, 2-stroke 0-475cc displacement & 4-stroke 0-650cc displacement
Class #3....Unlimited drag frame, 2-stroke 0-265cc displacement & 4-stroke 0-475cc displacement
Class #4....Unlimited OEM frame, Open displacement 2-stroke & Open displacement 4-stroke
Class #5....Unlimited OEM frame, 2-stroke 0-475cc displacement & 4-stroke 0-650cc displacement
Class #6....Unlimited OEM frame, 2-stroke 0-265cc displacement & 4-stroke 0-475cc displacement


Division #2
Class #1....Limited drag frame, Open displacement 2-stroke & Open displacement 4-stroke
Class #2....Limited drag frame, 2-stroke 0-475cc displacement & 4-stroke 0-650cc displacement
Class #3....Limited drag frame, 2-stroke 0-265cc displacement & 4-stroke 0-475cc displacement
Class #4....Limited OEM frame, Open displacement 2-stroke & Open displacement 4-stroke
Class #5....Limited OEM frame, 2-stroke 0-475cc displacement & 4-stroke 0-650cc displacement
Class #6....Limited OEM frame, 2-stroke 0-265cc displacement & 4-stroke 0-475cc displacement

That sure looks like a lot of classes to try to get ran?

I know that I look at the PS Drags and the West Coast Shootout different than many of you, (maybe I even look at it differently than EVERYBODY else....lol), but I think we need to re-define these two racing events!..........."FASTEST ON THE PLANET" to me means exactly that, not fastest on the planet with a stock un-modified...un-lightened...stock-painted...stock-tired...running on regular pump gas with stock ignition timing.....(I know that is carried to the extreme.....but where do we stop?)
I don't mean to sound like I intend to diminish the importance of someone running the above mentioned Fastest On the Planet Stocker, (hereafter known as a "FOPStocker"..... ...). I know that without the mildly modified "weekend warriors" there would not be a Fastest on the Planet event............but IMHO, that is what local events are for….to run FOPStockers, and try to get fast enough to go to the “Fastest on the Planet” races. When it comes time to go to the "National" events the overwhelming reason to go should be to see how much we can learn while we are at the event, from watching the fastest people run, and to try to figure out what makes them the fastest, so we can improve our performance in our next race.





I think those two statements would be correct if we were to create enough classes so that "everybody" could win at least one class........There are so many variables to contend with, the "winners" will be the people who have the most variables setup correctly.......power will be only one of those variables, but…..IMHO….. I am sure the “winners” will be at the top of the power heap.

that is very well said.......imho

Thats what everyone keeps saying... too many classes.

But the thing to consider is this would probably be the biggest class at PS. And probably the most competitive as well.

I just know with out a stock frame class i cant drive 18hrs to race. I am already at a huge disadvange becasuse we dont run paddles around here at all. Its all Prowedges,knobies and studs. So not only would i be running against frames, but also running paddles for the first time.

There should be a factory OEM class.

You would have to word it to be an unaltered
factory frame and sub frame. After market A-arms
may be used as long as the shock mounts are factory
and the suspension is functional. No tie downs or
solid struts. Extended swing arms would be permitted
limited to a 12" over, with no wheelie bars permitted.
Shock or solid strut on swing arm would be optional.

Motor.....Cases and transmission must match OEM frame.
Cylinder must match OEM cases.
(Honda 450R motor must match 450R frame....etc
Motor and transmission mounts may be added or strenghened
provided that the stock mounts remain in stock position.

Fuel.....Unlimited

Tires / Wheels....Unlimited

Just some thoughts.....

Actually it would be nice to see the factory bikes
right out of the crate, run heads up. Maybe get Dealers
involved for this. Big Pride thing they can hang in
their showrooms for a year....!!!

lets make this a 2 week event!!! lol

Calvin, If you want to truely bring the "fastest on the planet" together at one event then the classes should look just like this.

Single Cylinder
Twin Cylinder
Triple Cylinder
Four Cylinder

Lets run em.

Also, you want to talk about how many classes the singles will create, but you dont have anything to say about how many classes the twins are broke up into now do you?

You could always set it up like the Clash of the Titans where there are so many damn classes, everyone waits around for hours just to make a pass.

Seems like some event leaders just make a new class everytime someone asks for one.

Stick to your guns Calvin and keep it simple!


I never understood why people built a certain setup that doesn't have a snowball's chance, then they ask for their own class so they don't have to compete with everyone else. If you want to get into racing, just build something competetive in one of the existing classes!!!