We have always promoted the following rules in our heads up classes:

Unlimited = No Power Adder Rules

Limited Class = No Nitrous, No Turbos, No Fuel Additives, No Superchargers - Gas/Methanol Only

Now there are many people running the NEW M5 Methanol that has been oxygenated and VP claims a 5% increase in power.

There are so many other fuel blends available right out of the can for Gas or Methanol.

We have stated for the Limited Classes GAS or METHANOL Only, which means nothing more including any kind of out of the can blends of enhancers.


Please tell me what you know about fuels that are available that would break our no additives rule in Limited Classes?

If its out of the can ... run it.... if the racer is mixing in an additive ... violation.

The 5% increase that say ... Q16 claims, will only help to bridge the gap for the guys that run gas compared to the 10% gain alcohol usually gives over gas even though both run in the same class.

I cant imagine either oxygenated fuel be it M5 or Q16 would yield much if any of a result on the track

I personally dont know of any "out of the can" fuel blends that would break the limited rules ...

if im correct m3 and m5 from vp have a 3% or 5% nitro mix in it so those two should not be allowed in the limited classes. now the vp gas fuel like q16, mrxo1 ,and any of the mr9,10,11 should be allowed cuz all the add is more oxygn to bridge the gap between gas and alky imo .

I agree with forcefed....if its in the can sealed...then it should be legal in the class. Similar action happened in VA...they said the class is only PUMP GAS which most think 87, 89, 93 octane...well we can get CAM2 out of the pump here but they tried protesting it...rules say PUMP GAS...

Originally Posted By: renoyfzfan

if im correct m3 and m5 from vp have a 3% or 5% nitro mix in it so those two should not be allowed in the limited classes. now the vp gas fuel like q16, mrxo1 ,and any of the mr9,10,11 should be allowed cuz all the add is more oxygn to bridge the gap between gas and alky imo .

Actually it is a sister of nitro methane ... but either way, nitro is basically just oxygen - based on your gas comments, why in the world would Alky (which is also oxygen bearing) be excluded if you are fine with adding oxygen to gas ?

m1 alky will pass a water test m3, m5 wont so it shouldnt be allowed in with alky and gas classes.imo

i get nick too drink corn liquor and then in my fuel tanks...is this legal?


im with forcefed also...cant win build a stronger motor..m1/m3/m5/etc what ever its still in the alky family and shouldnt be disqualified if so everyone will be legal except a certain few cheaters....if they are legal every one has the chance too use them.....almost everyone can spot nitro turbos and nitrous but the other grades of alky are not easily detected nor do they make near the diference the nitro/etc does....

I dont think amnyone runs M-5 in 2 strokes, alot of us have tried it and it sucks, i believe it was designed for a four stroke? There has been talk of nitro this notro that in many tanks it just needs to be tested more. But IMO M-3 doesn't make enough of if any gain on the track to justify running it so let em have it if they want. Just random test fules more often for real nitro adders that actually make a difference.

I agree about the need for real fuel testing, threatening to test fuel and then only sniffing a gas tank is not enough to discourage cheaters.

100% alky has the same specific gravity everywhere and race gas numbers are published, all a person has to do is say what brand of fuel they are running and the numbers have to match. There are some special mixes that fool a hydrometer but in general, a $200 hydrometer is enough to keep 99.9% of the racers honest.

I believe charlie had a hydrometer at AVI, i saw them checking a couple of suspects,

If it isn't pure methanol in a methanol class, it should be outlawed.

If it isn't pure pump/race gas in a gas class, it should be outlawed.

If it is a spread bore in a non spread class, it should be outlawed

BTW, fuel testing and displacement testing would be GREAT for our sport.

I agree. if it wont pass a "specific gravity" the line is clear, I wouldnt leave any wiggle room on this. When you look at the specs on the different fuels they tell you if they will pass or not.. I totally agree on size and fuel checking

How are you going to check specific gravity with OIL in the fuel?

oil shouldn't affect water absorption so any fuel tech can muttle through the math.

now testing gas may not be as easy as a monolithic fuel like methanol. gas SpG has a lot more range , .600 to almost.800 so a meter would need to be used

for one thing, testing should be there because I know I dont want to be around certain additives that people would use if no testing was there.I would hate to have my health in someone else s hands just so they can have the edge

there has been heated arguments on here also to "try" to level the playing field and fuel IMO is one of the best ways to do this in the limited classes. I am sure testing is done in all of the platforms others seem to bring up.

this is right off of VP's tech sheet

"M5TM – M5 is simply the best performing methanol on the market. With its upgraded combustion additives, M5 will make more power than M3, while offering the same or better protection against detonation. Like M3, M5 offers a wider range for tuning, as reflected by the fact that the bracket racers who have helped us in testing have experienced no problems with tuning or tuning consistency. M5 also reduces noxious methanol fumes, although not as well as M3. That means that while M5 is the best choice for making the most power in unrestricted applications, M3 will still be the best option for some venues, notably enclosed stadiums. M5 is not pure methanol and won’t pass a water test."

it is 5% Nitro Methane... just because you can buy it out of a drum IMO shouldnt make it legal, I can buy nitro just the same
[b][/b]

Thanks for the input,

We have pulled/tested fuel from many bikes at our events right on the track, return roads, and staging lanes.

We will continue to do random checks and the rules still remain the same.

Methanol: Methanol used in our event must remain 100% Pure Methanol without any traces of other performance enhancers.

Gas: Gas used in our event may contain Octane Boosters such as Tetra-Ethyl Lead, MTBE, and Toluene. Oxygenators are still not allowed, the fuel must remain free of traces of other performance enhancers. You may use E85 which is 85% Ethanol 15% Gas.

there are very few [there are people that do] people that will tell truth what the bore and stroke is! evrey one says other wise. if theres nothing to hide pull the head off its just orings.see what that brings. JMO

There are tools available that can measure stroke & bore without pulling the head.

They have these really cool snap gauge looking devices that can check bore without popping the top off.

We have a few different fuel and displacement testing tools already, but always open for new ones.

my crap is ALL STOCK

MINE IS ALL SLOW>>

+1 TIM!

Stock cylinders should be exempt from testing, lol jk

Bump

I think that we should be allowed to run oxygenated fuels.
In a two stroke you mix oil with the fuel for the lube. In a 4 stroke yes there is top end lube but the problem is the alcohol runs past the rings and contaminates the oil .you need to change it every 4-5 passes or it will kill your motor. That is why most people I know don’t run alcohol. If there is not much of a gain with oxygenated fuel what is the problem with running it. I would like to run Oxygenated fuel. JMO

Get over it!

sounds like a tuning issue to me. I can make 2-3 weekends of riding without an oil change.

Same here..I run a 2ring piston w/Top-End Lube,and my oil is not milky..Too rich if thats happening..